Matthew Loeb is heading into what may be the most important negotiations of his 16-year tenure to date as International President of IATSE.
The union’s contract talks with the Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers are scheduled to begin March 4. After prolonged strikes last year by the Writers Guild of America and SAG-AFTRA, the industry is on edge about the possibility of another shutdown. This time, IATSE is strengthening its negotiating power by negotiating key aspects of the contract jointly with the Hollywood Basic Crafts Union as well as the Hollywood Teamsters.
In a wide-ranging Q&A, Loeb details the key issues at hand – artificial intelligence, waste streams and rising wages – and why he has already announced that IATSE is not willing to extend his current contract beyond the July 31 expiration date.
AI exploded as a major issue for the WGA and SAG-AFTRA during their contract talks last year. How do you see its impact on your negotiations? Does AI pose a threat to your members?
I won’t use the word threat and they see that as a challenge. I believe we are evaluating the impact of AI on our craft. Having said that, we will propose protections for functions and standards and hope that AI will actually help us in the future. Sometimes new jobs are created using new technology. Furthermore, I hope that some of the efficiencies and/or benefits of AI will trickle down to crews, which will take some pressure off the demands placed on people day in and day out.
Do you see it as a situation where AI is basically a tool and you just have to use it appropriately?
It will be a tool, but it has to be negotiated and viewed in my mind from a human perspective. The crafts and artistic professions that we represent should be in control of the things that have been produced so far as a result of their functions.
The main theme of SAG-AFTRA was achieving consent and compensation using artificial intelligence. For them it was good, we know we’re not going to stop that. it’s coming. he is here. But we want to know when it is being used and we want to get our money’s worth. Is this similar to the question you are making?
Well, our cases are a little different. Obviously, images of actors and those types of issues are different for us. For us, it’s really about the erosion, or potential erosion, of our craft, through technology. We don’t get paid extra for licensing or images, or proper copyrighting and things like that, although we do get the residuals…. We represent dozens of crafts, and the AI challenges vary somewhat from craft to craft. Obviously, from the painter or carpenter to the sound mixer to the editor. The nuances vary but having said that, we are looking for an umbrella of protection that covers everyone with a uniform, agreed-upon protection.
Your contract expires on July 31st. You’ve already said you won’t extend it. Should we read this into IATSE taking a tougher stance than it has in the past from the outset in these negotiations?
There are many reasons why we take this position. A set amount of time is used, regardless of its length, so we want to put a stake in the ground by the deadline. We have to ratify the (new) agreement before the (previous) contract expires. You can receive this message in any number of ways, including, if we don’t have an agreement, we will send a strike vote.
So, it’s not certain that there will be a vote on strike authorization – is that what you’re saying?
I say so. I hope we have an agreement that is fair and good enough for members to ratify. The final word is whether they will accept the best deal we think we can get.
Compared to 2021, people are probably suffering more than they were then. Anytime you get into a negotiation, you want to have a credible threat to strike. Do you feel that you are in a strong position to enter into these negotiations?
I think we are always in a strong position. It is a huge mistake to play the game of chicken. In these negotiations, we are there to reach an agreement, not to strike. But this, again, depends largely on employers responding to us in a meaningful way and responding to the 13 local unions that we represent and creating more safety. It is a mistake to underestimate people’s determination. Times are different now. People are strong and have that determination and see the changes that can be made. …I caution against any kind of assumption that we are weak and in no position to use their strength to get what we need.
Let’s talk about pay. In 2021, you get a 3% increase for three years – then inflation immediately rises by 8%. SAG-AFTRA received a 7% raise in the first year, followed by 4% in the second year and 3.5% in the third year. Is this the basis as to what you are looking for? Or does it have to be more than that for your members to catch up to?
We definitely have to make up that ground. As you know, we were in the middle of bargaining when inflation started to rise. So it was very difficult to go back and correct that at the end of the last negotiations. But yeah, we’ll definitely be looking to make up for that and we’ll be looking closely at what the unions got and the value of their deal. We will look for at least a proportionate deal for ourselves.
In 2021, the main issue has been delivery times and meal penalties. It was a case of people saying: ‘We’re working so hard, coming back from coronavirus, people going from job to job, getting burned out and working 14 hours a day.’ Is this still a major issue for you?
We analyze the data. We have seen some improvements because of what we negotiated. I think we still have some work to do there. It appears that some of what we did was actually effective. The idea of people getting comfortable is really what we wanted. We’re not after penalties and dollars, we’re about bringing relief to people, giving them the opportunity to get up on their feet and have a meal or spend some time with their families before they have to go back to work.
Another major thing from last time was the remaining flow from pensions and health. I can’t remember if that means you don’t get any leftover streaming, or is it not enough?
In 2021, we funded the plans largely with additional contributions and on an hourly basis (where employers make contributions based on the number of hours members work). There are several ways to get our money. One is hourly, the other is residual and of course there is an ROI. Yes, we will look for a way to tie the broadcast product to the remaining material and create a more stable and consistent funding mechanism for the plans…. Let me just add that these negotiations, a lot of it will be about security, post-coronavirus, what people are going through. People have reflected on their lives and people want and need some change. So there is an incentive to do it now.
During the strikes, there was a long period of time last year when people were not working and many still are not working. What is the impact on your retirement and health fund?
Thanks to health plan management and the retirement plan, we were able to get benefits to people throughout the pandemic and strikes. And it’s expensive. We are still on target to deliver those promised benefits and pensions to people. So, again, it’s about more reliable funding and more money to make sure that security continues into the future, and to make sure that we get a promise from employers that in these precarious businesses, basic security will be provided for (IATSE members) and their families.
Compared to 2021, people are probably suffering more than they were then. Anytime you get into a negotiation, you want to have a credible threat to strike. Do you feel that you are in a strong position to enter into these negotiations?
I think we are always in a strong position. It is a huge mistake to play the game of chicken. In these negotiations, we are there to reach an agreement, not to strike. But this, again, depends largely on employers responding to us in a meaningful way and responding to the 13 local unions that we represent and creating more safety. It is wrong to underestimate people’s determination. Times are different now. People are strong and have that determination and see the changes that can be made. …I caution against any kind of assumption that we are weak and in no position to use their strength to get what we need.
What’s noteworthy this year is that you’re negotiating alongside the Hollywood Basic Trades Union, specifically the pension and health portion of the contract. Can you give me an idea of the strategy there? Does this mean you are on the same page and asking for the same things?
Our core staff and trades members share the same benefit plans, the same qualifications, and the same great resolve we do. So we think it makes all the sense in the world for us to be at the table together, and frankly, we hope it brings us more power in the negotiations. Their interests are identical to ours. They are our sister union and it is the right thing to do. Again, we believe this will put us in a better position.
Are there any other major issues or issues you’ll encounter with AMPTP?
Artificial intelligence is definitely a big problem. Studios must take local negotiations seriously and respond with meaningful improvements. …There is another issue of subcontracting outside of our work, which is again a security issue. Some of the jobs we’ve done traditionally and some new technologies (allowed) employers to outsource work that traditionally fell within our purview. We have to make sure that we are protecting jobs and that we are not taking them away.